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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 20 post(s)
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2217	Posted - 2014.02.07 04:25:00 - [1] - Quote Andski wrote: any "counter" to the blob will ultimately become the blob hope this helps Obviously its time to cap standings lists and then cap alliance membership numbers and then just artificially cap things in the sand box until we get it in the position that we want it, we of course not being the players who are creating the content but the developers who have proven over the years that they absolutely do NOT know whats best as anybody at the company who's shown an iota of creativity or forward thinking has been shuffled off by Hiltermar or let slip away. I can surely support this point of view Andski, lets do it. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2217	Posted - 2014.02.07 04:30:00 - [2] - Quote We should probably cap the number of jumps you can make, and the number of broadcasts you can receive, and we maybe should cap the number of systems you can own, and definitely cap the number of stations you can build, lookin at you over there CVA, your rampant industrialization hasn't gone unnoticed, somebody will have to grind those one day, you're obviously exploiting a whole in game play, CAP IT. If this all sounds absurd to you then I think you may be getting the point. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2217	Posted - 2014.02.07 04:33:00 - [3] - Quote Andski wrote: it's hard to distinguish that from anything else you post because it's all absurd laffo Cap the number of posts a person can make, obviously this kind of mechanic is out of control, its used constantly Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2217	Posted - 2014.02.07 05:14:00 - [4] - Quote Dramaticus wrote: Grath Telkin wrote: We should probably cap the number of jumps you can make, and the number of broadcasts you can receive, and we maybe should cap the number of systems you can own, and definitely cap the number of stations you can build, lookin at you over there CVA, your rampant industrialization hasn't gone unnoticed, somebody will have to grind those one day, you're obviously exploiting a whole in game play, CAP IT. If this all sounds absurd to you then I think you may be getting the point. u mad Cap any emotional content as well. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2219	Posted - 2014.02.07 05:45:00 - [5] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: Hahaha you still think slowcats are a threat to us. Haha man James you are such a sheep, 3 weeks ago you cried in every forum created about how they couldn't be beat and how it was the end of days and the servers would explode and on an on and on while being told 'no you're wrong' literally the whole time, now here you are like you'd been confident about it the whole time. I also enjoy knowing you missed the point of all the posts I made in this thread and called my post 'a gem", clarifying the exact level of autism you currently suffer from. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2219	Posted - 2014.02.07 06:20:00 - [6] - Quote Arkady Romanov wrote: Grath Telkin wrote: Andski wrote: any "counter" to the blob will ultimately become the blob hope this helps Obviously its time to cap standings lists and then cap alliance membership numbers and then just artificially cap things in the sand box until we get it in the position that we want it, we of course not being the players who are creating the content but the developers who have proven over the years that they absolutely do NOT know whats best as anybody at the company who's shown an iota of creativity or forward thinking has been shuffled off by Hiltermar or let slip away. I can surely support this point of view Andski, lets do it. This is a slippery slope argument, and a bad one at that. I'm a little disappointed in you. Where's the fire, passion and uniquely worded insults and threats of grievious bodily harm? Cap slippery slopes, and definitely cap fire passion and uniquely worded insults. I mean if you cant get it by now, obviously the fact that the Domi was being out used over everything else is a good reason to put silly bullshit artificial caps on a mechanic. God forbid Rise and Fozzie publicly admit that their 'balance' pass broke things like Damps and Domis and you know, adjust damps and domis. In fact, Cap recognizing retardation from developers, it could lead to our already capped slippery slopes. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2219	Posted - 2014.02.07 06:22:00 - [7] - Quote Maybe we should cap the number of people allowed in any given system at any time, pulling some arbitrary number from my butt I choose 371. Obviously people piling into one place promotes afk game play because when TiDi is wound up to 1% you technically only have to be at your PC once an hour to issue commands. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2219	Posted - 2014.02.07 06:33:00 - [8] - Quote Andski wrote: Things that are hard capped in eve: fleet sizes drone bandwidth drone bays actual number of drones a ship can launch regardless of bandwidth corporation size number of industry/research slots a single character can use number of industry/research slots in any given station or POS array number of outposts in a 0.0 system number of characters on an account number of doomsdays you can fit on a titan number of cloaks you can fit on a ship number of cyno gens you can fit on a ship number of cynojammers you can have online number of TCUs you can have online number of ihubs you can have online fitting and rig slots, along with turret and launcher hardpoints number of implants you can plug in T3 subsystems tower CPU/PG bubble range things that are soft capped in eve: damage output of any given ship cargohold size turret/missile/drone optimal, falloff and tracking speed other crap that doesn't immediately come to mind but my point is made so shut up Grath tia Mechanics that were capped because of the Dominix: Drones. Any other ship having this problem would see the ship nerfed, using "People use the Domi too much we're capping drone assists" sounds like some scrub tier ****. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2219	Posted - 2014.02.07 06:48:00 - [9] - Quote Andski wrote: domi fleets are the only ones using drone assist, says grath telkin Thats not what I said at all, but its part of the main reasoning issued by CCP as to the change CCP Rise wrote: I can't put a number on it, but currently Dominixes are responsible for somewhere in the ballpark of 5 times the PVP damage dealt of the next most popular fleet battleship, if that's still the case in a few months this will have 'not worked'. Don't put words in my mouth that came from this guy thanks. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2219	Posted - 2014.02.07 06:49:00 - [10] - Quote Hey guys, we here at CCP feel we need to buff drone boats so that they're used as mainline combat ships Three months later.... OH GOD YOU'RE USING DRONES AS MAINLINE COMBAT SHIPS perhaps adding a drone bay to every ship in the game was the unwise choice people screamed in their face when they started to redo things. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.

Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2219	Posted - 2014.02.07 06:53:00 - [11] - Quote Andski wrote: CCP Rise wrote: Archons began showing the power of sentry doctrines before that, and the addition of tracking and optimal bonuses for drones on the Ishtar and Dominix catapulted this philosophy into the forefront of fleet warfare. The resulting meta is causing two major problems that we hope to address through this change. CCP Rise wrote: We believe a flat cap will: Limit large scale assist substantially Leave room for smaller scale assisting (there are several use-cases for assist that we wanted to preserve, such as incursion drone managers) Be very easy to communicate to players Affect carriers more heavily than sub-caps (because they can field 10 drones per ship rather than 5) yes clearly domis were the only thing causing problems here insightful as always, Grath Way to only read the part you like Andski, fitting as it is for you its still silly to quote when he not 4 posts later says that he does in fact want it to heavily effect sub caps, namely a particular one doing 5x more damage than the next closest ship. I mean i know its a goon thing to ignore any facts that dont fit your actual version of things but when you look at the whole package it becomes plainly obvious that he's an idiot. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2219	Posted - 2014.02.07 07:03:00 - [12] - Quote Andski wrote: you couldn't be more transparent about this by saying "nerf the domi but leave my crutch untouched" This will have zero effect on archon fleets, sorry, if anything it just means we'll lose less dudes who get up and leave mid fleet cause they know they'll still get kills. Anybody in your alliance that can see our forums can tell you what you just said makes you look comical in the same way you laugh at the special needs guy who just crapped his pants. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2219	Posted - 2014.02.07 07:09:00 - [13] - Quote Andski wrote: i'm whining like a ***** This would be the best description of your posting about archons for the 3 weeks preceding B-R yes, I'm glad you remember Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2219	Posted - 2014.02.07 07:15:00 - [14] - Quote Andski wrote: oh yeah about B-R, we're terribly sorry that we humiliated you, humiliated Manny and made your supercapital hegemony bullshit a thing of the past I dont think that word means what you think it means, or the people you think feel that feel that, one of the two, pick one and run with it Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2235	Posted - 2014.02.07 21:32:00 - [15] - Quote mynnna wrote: CCP's been known to tweak before, y'know. Put a good enough explanation forward and maybe it'll happen here, too, but "we like it this way and don't want to change" probably won't cut it. Why wouldn't it? Thats what CCP does with the Features and Ideas Discussion section. Its not about discussion, its about CCP dropping some assclown change in our lap and going " ok this is it deal with it" no matter what the player base says about the change. This very thread is a perfect example of that. Sentry drones haven't ever received any mechanical changes in any iteration they've done, the only thing thats changed is the Domi and the Ishtar, and yet suddenly they act like something changed in Sentry Drone mechanics to create some kind of imbalance thats being abused, which needs a change to drones, and not the catalyst that actually caused the rampant use: the Domi and Ishtar. It is in effect you shooting somebody with a gun and me ignoring you and trying to blame it all on the gun. CCP made changes, and when I say that I mean Kil2 and Fozzie made changes that they KNEW would break the game when they buffed the Domi and Damps as hard as they did. I've even been told that when warned about it all they did was smile, and now instead of owning their own retardation they're just brushing it all aside and moving on like they're not at all responsible, while at the same time completely destroying player made systems that have been around forever to cover their own ineptitude at balancing things. And instead of opening a dialouge with the players about it they ask the "CSM" which is made up largely of people fighting a group that uses sentry drones. I'm sure the feed back given was totally accurate and non biased and I'm sure that progod was very articulate in his ramblings. The end result is the developers doing exactly what you're telling the player base they shouldn't: Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2238	Posted - 2014.02.07 22:55:00 - [16] - Quote Two step wrote: [quote=Grath Telkin] If only PL had some representative on this "CSM"... (you should have made Elise run again, no way sentries would have been nerfed if he had showed up for the summit in that white suit of his) Yea, one guy arguing against the mob always works doesn't it? Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2247	Posted - 2014.02.08 23:38:00 - [17] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: We think entire fleets of assisted drones is not good gameplay and so we are making a change to address that. But entire fleets of missiles are fine, entire fleets of Artillery are fine, entire fleets of interceptors are fine. What you mean to say is that the 0.0 player base is so incredibly bored with the craptastic wonder that is SOV warfare that we're willing to endure what you consider 'not good gameplay' because it makes the life sucking experience of 0.0 sov fights (you know, the ones that make you all your money in the news) remotely tolerable. My next question would be if your player base does something, in mass, who are you to decide its not good game play? Perhaps taking a look at WHY something is done that way and fixing that instead will have a greater impact than just shoving your player bases face back in the pile of donkey ** that is Sov Warfare and telling them to deal with it. The rest of your post is just self righteous garbage. You 100% do NOT listen to your player base, most changes that hit these forums are fairly set in stone regardless of player feedback. You ignored their statements about the Nestor, and look at that thing, your ship rebalancing has largely just been shuffling slots and bonuses with zero creativity at all and despite being told what won't work (by other people that know the game) you put in changes that you are told ahead of time by massive number of people will suck. The ESS is a joke, hated from day one. Instead of meaningful change to things like POS's and SOV that your players want we get deployable crap that clutters up the grid because entire fleets now drop mobile depot's during fights. Thanks for that. In fact, the very best ship redo you've done is the inty, and in a non shocker the main idea for that one came from, wait for it, not you or your office but a player who wasn't on the CSM. So go on and ride your calm high horse Rise but your design changes and ideas on balance are laughably poor. You and yours knew you were breaking damps and people didn't cry about the geddon being stronger, they outright TOLD you that you were breaking the Domi. That and the CFC (you know, half the CSM) has outright stated a public goal that they will use sentry fleets with the express purpose of you nerfing them (Its on just about every player site and this one) leads one to believe that you just typed that up because you were mad a player (you know what you used to be) pointed out the ** poor job at game balance you'd been doing. Glad we have a Dev so easily manipulated by 1/2 of the games 0.0 player base that he would interfere directly in a war on their behalf. So this is me outright telling you Kil2 that your player base already has figured out how we'll handle drone assign going forward, the fix was simplistic in nature, and that we'll keep coming up with new ways to afk the 0.0 game until you fix it because its garbage in the worst possible way Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2248	Posted - 2014.02.08 23:51:00 - [18] - Quote Malcanis wrote: I mean 300 man archon fleets were pretty routine in 2004 Stop being manipulative with your data Malcanis fleets can't reach 300 people and we all know that. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2248	Posted - 2014.02.09 00:08:00 - [19] - Quote mynnna wrote: Grath Telkin wrote: CCP Rise wrote: We think entire fleets of assisted drones is not good gameplay and so we are making a change to address that. A giant angry wall of screed. The key word in his post there was "assisted" drones, not "entire fleets". hth. Nothing to see here ignore our gigantic all Celestis fleets focus on the drones, oh and don't mind that we intentionally set out to get this nerfed by using it in excess and on purpose. I wonder what the stats would look like over the last 6 months if you hadn't gone out of your way to skew them. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2248	Posted - 2014.02.09 00:13:00 - [20] - Quote Captain StringfellowHawk wrote: Glad we have an alliance that gave up the fight before these changes went live. I mean heaven forbid sticking around until these changes went live and have the actual ability to blame the changes on your losses. But I guess Pre-Patch losses are still based upon Unreleased changes. I just wish I could blame my ship losses on patches that aren't live yet. :( This is the part where I go "HAHA your alliance is dying because you don't have Zagdul" Go on. Let it sink in. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.

Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2248	Posted - 2014.02.09 00:18:00 - [21] - Quote Andski wrote: celestises are the new falcons also why don't you actually do like the rest of us and make a reasoned argument for why damps need adjustment, rather than all this doom and gloom about how the unstoppable FYF is going to conquer all of known space Because the balance team isn't actually interested in balance, especially when you're pointing out things they did wrong, they get all snippy and post a load of bullshit defending their retardation EDIT: remember Hacs, how they fixed those? See a lot of HAC's flying around? Yea, you don't really do you. remember everybody 6 months ago going 'hey damps are going to be stupid powerful', balance team goes 'yea we'll adjust that if we need to". Now we have 200 man all Celestis fleets, no big deal, good luck balancing the Arazu around a hull that costs 7 million isk remember everybody telling them that the Domi's drones were going to be off the chain as far as tracking goes? Yea, see how well they took that feed back don't you. They legit aren't interested in player feedback, and anybody who thinks they are is deluding themselves because every single problem thats cropped up in balance they were told about before hand and went ahead with because they think they know best. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2248	Posted - 2014.02.09 00:24:00 - [22] - Quote Andski wrote: Grath Telkin wrote: Because the balance team isn't actually interested in balance, especially when you're pointing out things they did wrong, they get all snippy and post a load of bullshit defending their retardation yeah remember when the balance team changed titans in dominion and gave them the ability to deal near dread level damage while receiving tracking links and remote sensor boosts? yeah it's a shame they're too stubborn to admit that that was a mistake Nobody ever tracking linked titans, thats something entirely fabricated by the CFC, we simply went with zero tank and all tracking mods. But keep that myth flowing, I'm obviously lying about it because I have reason to keep telling you this never existed 2 years later. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2248	Posted - 2014.02.09 00:35:00 - [23] - Quote Captain StringfellowHawk wrote: Grath Telkin wrote: Captain StringfellowHawk wrote: Glad we have an alliance that gave up the fight before these changes went live. I mean heaven forbid sticking around until these changes went live and have the actual ability to blame the changes on your losses. But I guess Pre-Patch losses are still based upon Unreleased changes. I just wish I could blame my ship losses on patches that aren't live yet. :( This is the part where I go "HAHA your alliance is dying because you don't have Zagdul" Go on. Let it sink in. No clue who that is, But if we are dying.. at least we're not leaving a streak of Excuses Behind us in the process or systems lost. But instead of giving reasonable feedback for this thread your complain that no one listens, and when they do they just post retardation. So instead of Being useful, your spout your own retardation into the thread and be about as useful as the same people you tear about. Legit. Here's our suggestion: Stop taking balance ques that are biased because you're taking them from one side of a war who's fighting another side of a war. Stop taking balance ques from people who are crying about one thing being broken while abusing something else thats broken. Read your own dev blogs and know that what you've just done is exasperated the situation for drones. What does this mean? In the recent Dev Blog about HED, it was revealed that Drones make a lot of calls to the server. They constantly think about what to shoot, whats near them, where they're going, and all that. Thats when left to their own free will. When you assist drones you set them to "passive" so they're not trying to figure out what to shoot on their own meaning they're not thinking about all that crap and they only shoot what their told when their told. So in that way assisted drones are less of a drag on server resources than non assisted drones. Removing drone assist will actually have a degrading effect on server performance because now fewer people will assist them and more will just manually fire drones from a single button meaning that more drones will stay active. I mean if you think that people will stop using Domis because of drone assist needing a squad commander to bear the load then Ok but you're wrong. The net effect will be hostile logistics dealing with the alpha every 4 seconds from 25 dudes instead of one. If anything you've now forced the player base into the nightmare situation that everybody was concerned with of multiple triggers. The over all short sightedness of the balance team is shocking but I understand your inability to even broach that subject because your side 'won' the argument in the middle of a war but if you can't see whats coming next then you're blind. So excuse me for not pointing out what tons of people have already pointed out, and for saying that once again the balance team will do something while ignoring feed back that will have consequences down the road that they could adjust now by leaving drone assist as is and just nerfing the ships like the Domi and Ishtar which they knew they were breaking when they broke them. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2250	Posted - 2014.02.09 00:39:00 - [24] - Quote Andski wrote: Grath Telkin wrote: Nobody ever tracking linked titans, thats something entirely fabricated by the CFC, we simply went with zero tank and all tracking mods. But keep that myth flowing, I'm obviously lying about it because I have reason to keep telling you this never existed 2 years later. yes and you also didn't RSB them, that's why our logistics didn't get DDed as soon as they exited warp my point is that none of these things are things anymore because as it turns out they do listen to feedback notice that i said feedback and not angry allcaps rants Nobody did any of that either dude, the fit is simple, 2 faction/officer sebos, a mwd, 2 officer tracking comps and a target painter, 3 mag stabs, 3 tracking enhancers, a damage control and guns. Stop already its silly to see you 2 years later saying we did things that were NEVER done, or needed to be done at all. And those things could have stayed, the feed back was just because the CFC didn't feel it should have to field caps to fight caps and so you whined until it got nerfed (a fairly constant trend) when the counter to untanked titans has existed since forever in multiple forms. Theres a difference between needed tweaks in game play and a lazy group of players who want the game to just be about who has the most number of sub caps. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2250	Posted - 2014.02.09 00:43:00 - [25] - Quote Andski wrote: yes we're too cowardly to field caps Hey guys, ignore the past 7 years of our existence, just focus on the past month Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2250	Posted - 2014.02.09 01:00:00 - [26] - Quote Captain StringfellowHawk wrote: But you as an individual with status in this game carry more weight helping vs arguing with Dev's. Oh how I wish this was true, if it were the Sac wouldn't be the stinking pile of garbage that it is and instead of worrying about what drones are doing they'd be balancing recons and whoever thought of moving the serpentis web bonus would be locked in a Russian Gulag Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2253	Posted - 2014.02.09 01:49:00 - [27] - Quote Arthur Aihaken wrote: If the game is seeing severe performance problems related to drones and in particular drone assist, elimination of drone assist would seem to resolve the vast majority (if not all) issues. Nobody has said that drone assist causes the lag, in fact if you read the dev blog its saying that its basic drone behavior that causes it as its doing all its figuring. If anything properly assisted drones reduce lag as they're not thinking as much on their own, instead they're just sitting still waiting to be told to fire. EDIT: None of this even comes close to addressing the fact that the 'balance' team just gave every damn ship in the game a drone bay Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2253	Posted - 2014.02.09 02:20:00 - [28] - Quote Arthur Aihaken wrote: Grath Telkin wrote: Nobody has said that drone assist causes the lag, in fact if you read the dev blog its saying that its basic drone behavior that causes it as its doing all its figuring. If anything properly assisted drones reduce lag as they're not thinking as much on their own, instead they're just sitting still waiting to be told to fire. If drone assist didn't exist, drones wouldn't be as prevalent - pure and simply. And yes, I agree - why every ship needs a stupid drone bay is beyond me. They actually would since as a DPS platform on Domis and Ishtars they're virtually unrivaled in their ability to punch lower classes of ships. MJD's and things like that mean you can separate yourself from your damage and put your enemy in a position to have low transV vs the drones with a relative ease, while their insanely low fire time and obscene tracking on those 2 ships means that nothing small survives very long. Its like you dont know that you can assign your drones to a key. And heres the stupid part: When you're controlling your own droens, you can hit the fire key, and then hit the recall key, and then fire key again, actually increasing your rate of fire because drone coding is so ******** (smaller gangs already do this, ECM drone users have been doing it since forever). The only thing drone boats don't do well currently is punch above sub caps, removing drone assist wont change any of that because the ships in question are broken at the base stat level. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2253	Posted - 2014.02.09 02:31:00 - [29] - Quote Ragnen Delent wrote: It's kind of hilarious that there has been no good argument for drone assist as a game mechanic beyond "It was already in the game" or "FYF is too powerful" Just because you don't find an argument to have merit doesn't mean that there haven't been any made, if anything, that suggests that you're biased is so far to one side that you can't see anything from a neutral point of view. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2254	Posted - 2014.02.09 03:03:00 - [30] - Quote Ragnen Delent wrote: In fact, you have on several occasions mentioned that it is possible to manually fire drones with a keybinding, so why is it so critical to have the assist mechanic around? Because changing something being used in a fight after one of the two sides cried for months to get it changed cant be seen as anything but preferential bias, and if the balance team can't see that as something the player base will take it as then perhaps they shouldn't be on the balance team. Considering EVE's history of preferential treatment this particular change seems poorly timed, and didn't at all involve the player base, and did involve a CSM that is particularly biased towards one side of that fight. EDIT: Also lol insinuating that pressing F1 is anymore difficult or skill intensive than not pressing F1. Literally the crux of your argument is that pressing a single button is somehow more skill based than no pressing a single button. Lets all try and come back down to reality here with our arguments about skill. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.

Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2254	Posted - 2014.02.09 03:07:00 - [31] - Quote Ragnen Delent wrote: Grath Telkin wrote: Because changing something being used in a fight after one of the two sides cried for months to get it changed cant be seen as anything but preferential bias, and if the balance team can't see that as something the player base will take it as then perhaps they shouldn't be on the balance team. Considering EVE's history of preferential treatment this particular change seems poorly timed, and didn't at all involve the player base, and did involve a CSM that is particularly biased towards one side of that fight. So, other than that, no particular reason? That argument is pretty weak, which may be why I earlier dismissed it as "not an argument". Again, your ignoring the biased being shown to the ninny side thats been crying the entire war does not make it not a thing, it just means that you're incapable of neutral thought. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2254	Posted - 2014.02.09 03:51:00 - [32] - Quote Ransu Asanari wrote: I don't see having to assign more drone triggers in large fleet fights actually improving the play experience for the average player.. It wont, i has literally nothing to do with improving our game play experience because if it did they'd be looking at the over all fleet fight experience. This is just plain biased Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2255	Posted - 2014.02.09 04:19:00 - [33] - Quote Ragnen Delent wrote: Again, you have failed to bring forth an argument for keeping it. Why should drones have the unique ability to apply perfect alpha to targets? This isn't a thing, when you start your post with a lie that means you either don't know what you're arguing about or that you're lying in an attempt to mislead people. Drones do not fire in prefect synch when assigned, this is a lie, its been a lie, and nothing you can do can make it not a lie. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2255	Posted - 2014.02.09 04:34:00 - [34] - Quote Snow Axe wrote: So would CCP thinking drone assist fleets are a-ok and in no need of change be preferential bias to your side? Because I mean that'd be pretty ******* stupid. Exactly, so you announce the change, but slate it for the spring release so theres TONS of time for feedback and adjustment and time for the people on both sides of the war to adjust so that there can't be any possible claim of biased. Not this 'oh hey, i know you're in a war and all but fyi we're going to do what this side wants, and its comming in the next point release" Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2255	Posted - 2014.02.09 05:21:00 - [35] - Quote mynnna wrote: Grath Telkin wrote: Really because your own leader pinged today that the war isn't over yet, I'll let him know that you know more than he does about whats going on. Did I miss the patch? Is this particular change actually already in the game? The end of February isn't that far away Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2257	Posted - 2014.02.09 08:16:00 - [36] - Quote Snow Axe wrote: BTW if you think that drone assist wasn't one of the biggest reasons said fleets were popular then looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool Yea, im sure its got nothing to do with A) CFC ordering its pilots to use drone assign so much that CCP has no choice but to fix it and B) the fact that Domis, unlike other BS, **** anything smaller than a BS (like logi and armor hacs). Glad you know a lot about game mechanics. Here's a tip: We have at least 2 other fleet comps that use sentries that don't use assign, and its because of the way sentries fire and track on smaller targets. None of those will be retired because of this change, in fact I'm betting at least one sees more usage because its not the drone assign thats broken its the sentry drones, the domi, and the ishtar. If you were to nuke those two plat forms you'd A) crap on the only hac that saw increased usage after the hac balance pass and B) stop drone usage almost all together because those are the only two really good fleet combat ships that use them. Then you'd just see carriers, and to be honest carriers can be countered as we have seen so long as you dont believe that the right tool for every job is a sub cap. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2257	Posted - 2014.02.09 08:19:00 - [37] - Quote By the way, there is virtually no mechanic in EVE that would hold up to 35k dudes being ordered to constantly use it until CCP change it. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2258	Posted - 2014.02.09 09:22:00 - [38] - Quote Dave Stark wrote: this change doesn't really fix a single thing. No you dont get it this is to fix a bottleneck created by the CFC on purpose to combat a mechanic that has been in the game for 10 years, it obviously fixes something, nobody can tell you what that is but it obviously fixes something. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2258	Posted - 2014.02.09 09:26:00 - [39] - Quote In fact, considering what goes on in any non CFC drone fleet, which consists of Domis, I challenge CCP to prove that the game play is anymore or less passive game play than any other ship in any other large scale fleet fight. Considering the only people who make the game play passive are CFC fleet doctrines I would wonder why the rest of the game has to be changed. Or didn't any of our CSM members bring up that in most other fleets theres a slightly complex management of the ships other modules? i mean that would be because they don't understand or know what they're talking about would it? Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2258	Posted - 2014.02.09 09:30:00 - [40] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Grath Telkin wrote: Dave Stark wrote: this change doesn't really fix a single thing. No you dont get it this is to fix a bottleneck created by the CFC on purpose to combat a mechanic that has been in the game for 10 years, it obviously fixes something, nobody can tell you what that is but it obviously fixes something. And Grath, you're almost as bad. I know you're no more capable of looking past your own immediate interest than you are of cutting your own **** off, but I also know that you're so well aware that conditions have changed in the last 10 years that your nose must have grown 8 inches to compensate when you told that gigantic lie. Hey I'm totally sure your opinion isn't biased at all right? I mean you're totally not just carrying the company line since I've proven on other forums that you legit know absolutely nothing about Drone Assisted fleets and what makes the drones work right? Or was that somebody else posting under your name who had zero working knowledge of a slowcat carrier fleet? EDIT: I mean heaven forbid people find out that you're just doing the standard politician bullshit where you just do what you're told by somebody behind you. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.

Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2258	Posted - 2014.02.09 09:37:00 - [41] - Quote Mario Putzo wrote: Promiscuous Female wrote: Grath Telkin wrote: In fact, considering what goes on in any non CFC drone fleet, which consists of Domis, I challenge CCP to prove that the game play is anymore or less passive game play than any other ship in any other large scale fleet fight. Considering the only people who make the game play passive are CFC fleet doctrines I would wonder why the rest of the game has to be changed. Or didn't any of our CSM members bring up that in most other fleets theres a slightly complex management of the ships other modules? i mean that would be because they don't understand or know what they're talking about would it? just let it go and get some celestises already oh wait you can't, blackops farmed EMP so hard and converted so many of the renters even at half price rent that they couldn't even afford to pay their sov bills and had to dissolve cobalt edge into B0TLRD just to keep CONCORD from welping the sov so you no longer have a feeder alliance to whip into subcaps What does sov conquest have to do with balancing of drone mechanics? He/She can't fault the point of the post so they attack something about the poster himself, its scrub tier, dont even sweat it. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2258	Posted - 2014.02.09 09:42:00 - [42] - Quote Promiscuous Female wrote: fear of ewar ships was one of the things that pushed ewar immune drone assist doctrines towards the forefront not the only thing, of course, but a portion nonetheless the destruction of one of their best hopes for fielding "unsavory" t1 cruisers in battle is pretty relevant Make believe boys and girls, in action, and live. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2258	Posted - 2014.02.09 10:05:00 - [43] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: Grath Telkin wrote: Snow Axe wrote: BTW if you think that drone assist wasn't one of the biggest reasons said fleets were popular then looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool Yea, im sure its got nothing to do with A) CFC ordering its pilots to use drone assign so much that CCP has no choice but to fix it and B) the fact that Domis, unlike other BS, **** anything smaller than a BS (like logi and armor hacs). I'm glad to see that you don't consider CCP to have any of the rudimentary thinking required to distinguish someone artificially inflating the metrics on usage to get something nerfed with things that are actually broken. Sure if we were the only ones using drone assist en masse you'd have a point, but we aren't. You're the ones currently using fully passive set ups, and yes, from every number quoted for their time they've been watching, that would be you artificially inflating numbers since you've been fielding 300-1000 man Domi fleets since October. Thats going to artificially inflate numberrs, because the last time Domi fleets were in heavy use was around the AT when NCdot was fighting goons. Your numbers inlfate things, Im betting that if they checked the stats for then your Mega would be one of the ships at the top of if not the top for damage inflicted. Its always been that way, it used to be the Maelstrom you kept up there. Sighting a short term pattern for those Domi stats like he's doing when you have such a large entity using it as its mainline fleet doctrine on purpose is dumb. I would call it something else but its just dumb 35k dudes get told to use something constantly CCP Employee acts shocked when its at the top of the usage charts I'm willing to bet if they checked, Damps are currently obliterating all other forms of projected Ewar as well. Could it be because all of EVE is damping things or because of the 200 man Celestis fleets that accompany CFC fleets, and should we base overall game usage on that stat or view it for what it is: One faction inflating numbers due strictly to its size. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2258	Posted - 2014.02.09 10:16:00 - [44] - Quote Malcanis wrote: tell us some more about now nerfing tracking titans will end PvP in null forever I take it this means you tried to post and make CCP think you were one of the players who 'know what they're talking about" Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2260	Posted - 2014.02.09 12:39:00 - [45] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: A perfectly fine and functioning game mechanic doesn't completely ignore ship and human limitations. You mean the same way that fleet warping saves the slow and afk from being tackled and the way that keeping at range on a moving target stops humans from making piloting errors and getting out of position? You mean those kind of perfectly functioning game mechanics that ignore ship and human limitations? Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2262	Posted - 2014.02.10 02:58:00 - [46] - Quote Again with the human limitations thing: Thats fine, if its human limitations you shouldn't be able to anchor or keep at range or approach on a moving target because that eliminates the possibility of pilot error and proper positioning. I assume that since we want human error and all that to matter we can load that in with the 'drone assist nerf passive game play' bullshit right? I mean if you can't be asked to fly your own ship what right do you have to demand somebody else fire their guns? Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2263	Posted - 2014.02.10 05:42:00 - [47] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: Approach, keep at range, and orbit all have limitations of their own. Not in the way that they eliminate human error, try and stick to a narrative here James. You can't eliminate one form of 1 man fleet work when you have your entire fleet being driven around the battle field by one man. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2263	Posted - 2014.02.10 07:19:00 - [48] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: Some actions are okay, some are not. . Right, we've established that any action that promotes afk gameplay or places the abilities of your ship in another players hands is not. Fleet anchors would then fall in the 'not' category because you're not driving your spaceship, somebody else is. James Amril-Kesh wrote: Drone assist by contrast is useful only on a very small group of hulls A Small group of hulls? Name the hulls in EVE without drone bays. Then name the hulls in EVE with drone bays. See if you still feel its only a 'small group'. (I'll spoiler it for you): The recent ship changes have given almost every ship in EVE a drone bay, so by your logic since its ok for you to AFK your ship and let somebody else drive it because it works across a large number of hulls, Drone assist should be even more ok since its not only used in PVP but PVE and its usable by nearly every hull in the game. Also how do you know CCP can't do anything about it? If they can tell you that you're not allowed to anchor a structure near a gate or smartbomb near a station or that you can't light a cyno because you're going to fast I imagine it would be a relatively trivial task to state that you can't anchor or orbit a fleet member or even a moving target at all. Picking and choosing which afk mechanics and which mechanics you allow one man to control all of for a fleet reeks of hypocrisy, just in case you were wondering, not to mention the outright lie that drone assists is used on a "small group of hulls". Its used on tons of hulls for tons of reasons, it just doesn't fit the James Version of Reality so as per usual with your posting you simply ignore it. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2263	Posted - 2014.02.10 08:10:00 - [49] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: Grath Telkin wrote: A Small group of hulls? Name the hulls in EVE without drone bays. Then name the hulls in EVE with drone bays. See if you still feel its only a 'small group'. Your posting is getting more and more inane. So wait, you tell me that drone assist only works on a few hulls and now its my posting thats wrong? Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2271	Posted - 2014.02.10 11:33:00 - [50] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: Grath Telkin wrote: James Amril-Kesh wrote: Grath Telkin wrote: A Small group of hulls? Name the hulls in EVE without drone bays. Then name the hulls in EVE with drone bays. See if you still feel its only a 'small group'. Your posting is getting more and more inane. So wait, you tell me that drone assist only works on a few hulls and now its my posting thats wrong? It was pretty obvious that I was speaking in terms of sentry drone assist. No, it actually wasn't, youre exact words are in the quote and you said absolutely nothing about sentry drones, and this isn't just about sentry drones, which is the point of what all the other people not in the CFC are mad about. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.

Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2280	Posted - 2014.02.10 13:31:00 - [51] - Quote Fix Sov wrote: Chronology: N3/PL uses sentry-wielding carriers CFC finally escalate in a way which causes "a few" N3/PL titans to die N3 and PL call for a withdrawal CCP announce drone assist changes And yet, on twitter, Grath keeps claiming that this change was implemented "to help one side of a war", despite the fact that drone assist wasn't why the withdrawal happened, and the war's essentially over well before it was announced. I didn't say help, I said Favor, as in to side with. Heres a broader chronology for you: CFC announces at the start of the war that they will use sentry assign in excess so it gets nerfed because its their opponents chosen weapon system (this is on both news sites) For 90 days they fly nothing but Harpy and Domi fleets (obviously the harpy needs to be nerfed, its usage stats have to be broken) CFC cries about drone lag while fielding 1k man fleets of Domis CCP announces Drone changes CFC pinged to come to this thread to celebrate their 'victory' Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2280	Posted - 2014.02.10 13:37:00 - [52] - Quote Fix Sov wrote: And how does that bolster your claim that CCP implemented this change to "help one side in a war", when that war's already over, and the ending of it had nothing to do with drones? Wars not over, pretty sure you're still fighting daily and Mittani already pinged that you need to stop acting like the war is over because its costing you ships. And again siding with one group of players over another, regardless of the state of the war is bad developmental practice Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2280	Posted - 2014.02.10 13:42:00 - [53] - Quote Andski wrote: the war isn't over Exactly Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2280	Posted - 2014.02.10 13:53:00 - [54] - Quote Fix Sov wrote: So 2 sides are using drone assist, CCP announces the changes after the war's essentially over (until the next war flares up in some other region), and despite the fact that both sides are using drone assist (and as such are both equally affected), CCP is siding with one side. Well, that's logical. Try, one side publicly announces at the start of the fight that they're going to purposely excessively use the favorite weapon system of its enemy with the express intent of having it nerfed. CCP is caving in to that stupidity and instead of overhauling all drones they are literally doing exactly what one side publicly stated its goal was. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2280	Posted - 2014.02.10 14:00:00 - [55] - Quote Fix Sov wrote: What would they do to "overhauling all drones"? You mean fix fighters fix tracking so that sentries weren't the go to drone (this can be broken down into sub categories but we'll condense it) fix the drone UI so it wasn't garbage fix the drone behavior so they didn't go skynet fix the drone coding so it didn't pour gas on the server and flick matches at it fix ec 300s so that they weren't broken and dumb fix other ewar drones so they were useful to carry just to name a few off the top of my head. If there was an overall patch for drones then this wouldn't be such a one sided thing Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2280	Posted - 2014.02.10 23:52:00 - [56] - Quote Mike Azariah wrote: Kneejerk, all I can say is Correlation does not Imply Causation. tl;dr hey guys i know it looks like we're caving to the demands of a portion of the player base instead of actually addressing the overall problem but i swear thats not actually whats happening. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2280	Posted - 2014.02.11 00:01:00 - [57] - Quote Mike Azariah wrote: Grath Telkin wrote: Mike Azariah wrote: Kneejerk, all I can say is Correlation does not Imply Causation. tl;dr hey guys i know it looks like we're caving to the demands of a portion of the player base instead of actually addressing the overall problem but i swear thats not actually whats happening. Why is you tl:dr longer than my original bit? m Because your post was a cop out Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2281	Posted - 2014.02.11 00:11:00 - [58] - Quote Fix Sov wrote: Grath Telkin wrote: Mike Azariah wrote: Kneejerk, all I can say is Correlation does not Imply Causation. tl;dr hey guys i know it looks like we're caving to the demands of a portion of the player base instead of actually addressing the overall problem but i swear thats not actually whats happening. "CCP are caving to the demands of a portion of the playerbase by affecting both portions of the playerbase equally, this is blatantly unfair" http://themittani.com/news/gsf-ceo-update-curse-deployment I can't hear you over the sound of your leader saying he was going out of his way to break this mechanic on September 29th, even stating at that point that CCP didn't see a problem with it and that you had to 'force them to see it as a problem". Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2281	Posted - 2014.02.11 00:24:00 - [59] - Quote Fix Sov wrote: Grath Telkin wrote: Fix Sov wrote: Grath Telkin wrote: Mike Azariah wrote: Kneejerk, all I can say is Correlation does not Imply Causation. tl;dr hey guys i know it looks like we're caving to the demands of a portion of the player base instead of actually addressing the overall problem but i swear thats not actually whats happening. "CCP are caving to the demands of a portion of the playerbase by affecting both portions of the playerbase equally, this is blatantly unfair" http://themittani.com/news/gsf-ceo-update-curse-deployment I can't hear you over the sound of your leader saying he was going out of his way to break this mechanic on September 29th, even stating at that point that CCP didn't see a problem with it and that you had to 'force them to see it as a problem". Sounds like you're expecting the CFC to man up and deal with the change, and that this makes this change unfair. No, Im expecting the developers to notice that a sub set of players set out with a specific goal of breaking a part of the game that the developers and other players considered working fine. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2281	Posted - 2014.02.11 00:34:00 - [60] - Quote Fix Sov wrote: Grath Telkin wrote: No, Im expecting the developers to notice that a sub set of players set out with a specific goal of breaking a part of the game that the developers and other players considered working fine. Because it's been working just fine with absolutely no changes for 10 years, right? I'm sorry, are you denying that you set out with the goal of forcing the developers change their opinion and see it as broken by intentionally going out of your way to be as abusive as possible with the mechanic? Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.

Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2282	Posted - 2014.02.11 00:43:00 - [61] - Quote Captain StringfellowHawk wrote: I am all for Assist being completely Removed btw.. As would I be, if it were part of a larger drone overhaul and not the kneejerk reaction to the cries of a singular faction of EVE who stated their direct intent to abuse a mechanic until CCP's view on it changed. Thats not good game development, it sets a bad example that shows the CFC that if they don't like a thing, they can simply go out of their way to break it until CCP cave in to their demands, and at that point, whats the point of internal development, why not just ask the CFC what they'd like to have in the game instead of calling it a sand box and allowing players any freedom? Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2282	Posted - 2014.02.11 01:11:00 - [62] - Quote Fix Sov wrote: Except it is a sandbox, you just don't like these particular changes. The changes could be anything, they're inconsequential in the grand scheme of life, the thing that people don't like is its essentially just the CFC dictating game design and the Developers not having enough spine to tell you to suck it up until they overhaul drones (like they've been doing for people asking for a Drone UI fix for the past 10 years) Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2282	Posted - 2014.02.11 01:33:00 - [63] - Quote Captain StringfellowHawk wrote: Well, then change that... the way to counter 65,000 players voices... is to rival that with more or equal players countering it. This would be fine if the game had an infinite population, however it doesn't which means that one side will eventually dictate the games development direction which is dumb. The developers need to do that in a void without player interruption Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2282	Posted - 2014.02.11 01:56:00 - [64] - Quote Fix Sov wrote: Mario Putzo wrote: Fix Sov wrote: So one side abusing something is fine, but the other side abusing it at the same time is bad? I don't follow. Who said anything about abusing. I didn't mention it anywhere in my post at all that drone use was an abuse. So one side using drones is just fine because it's the right side using it, the other side using it in the exact same fashion is bad because it's the wrong side using it. Gotcha. One side said they were setting out to break it, the other side didn't, hope that helps Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2282	Posted - 2014.02.11 02:24:00 - [65] - Quote Captain StringfellowHawk wrote: So because the CFC said they would show how broken it is, thats a bad thing? Because one group can show bad mechanics it's bad? There are tons of bad mechanics in EvE, really really terrible mechanics (transfer sov from one alliance to another peacefully without coming down with CTS i dare you). There are in fact not many mechanics in EVE that would stand up to 35k dudes harping on about them, I would argue almost none would. If the CFC magically became a 35k man mining coalition tomorrow you would instantly start to see problems in mining. This isn't about game balance, this is about one group of players going after another group of players through the developers, because if it were anything other than that the CFC would go after all the things that are bad mechanics, not just the ones their enemies use. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2282	Posted - 2014.02.11 03:07:00 - [66] - Quote Captain StringfellowHawk wrote: Or there now worried that Grath's conversation is going to remove orbiting and approaching mechanics.... They pulled the plugs on there Eve Accounts and went back to playing Trade Wars. Well that would be silly, unless people aren't really worried about AFK enabling mechanics like they say.... Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2283	Posted - 2014.02.11 03:37:00 - [67] - Quote Captain StringfellowHawk wrote: I can see orbit and approach more necessary then an afk mechanic. Unless we suddenly get actual steering mechanics into this game besides the clunky Double clicking in space. Give me steering Via keyboard... or mouse.. or my Saitek X52 ( or other version) and I will fully support removing those two. So true story, if you anchor and approach on a fleet anchor, that anchor is steering you in that 'clunky double click' way, so somebody is having to do that action for the whole fleet. If we're really dealing with afk stuff, that action should be performed by the individual members, not just one man. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2283	Posted - 2014.02.11 05:22:00 - [68] - Quote Promiscuous Female wrote: Also if the words of your confederates are any indication, the whole shebang seems pretty neutral as a whole to your side, so why not just relax with a glass of scotch instead of posting words on a forum about a change that you don't even care about I've stated multiple times why: An in game entity has publicly stated that it wanted a mechanic used by its enemy removed from the game, they then engaged in a posting spree and a mechanics overload to attempt to sway the game developer who in the CFC's own words "didn't see the mechanic as a problem". Changing a game mechanic because an ingame entity wants you to is the slippery of slipperiest slopes that as a developer they should never go down, especially when the rest of anything dealing with drones is in such terrifyingly bad shape. Fix drones, as a whole, not just the part that one ingame entity is attempting to twist y our arm about. Fix Afk mechanics, not just the mechanics that one ingame entity is crying about. Do this and it doesn't matter what mechanic you change because its a fair and balanced approach that the entire game benefits from, not just appeasing a portion of the player base because they waged some stupid forum war. Forum wars and propaganda wars are supposed to go on between alliances, when the game developer starts falling victim to it then you're wading deep into dangerous territory. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2284	Posted - 2014.02.11 05:56:00 - [69] - Quote Weaselior wrote: you meant No, I meant exactly what I just said. Is English not your first language? Promiscuous Female wrote: also frankly your position shows a very low amount of respect for CCP Well good I was wondering if it showed Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2284	Posted - 2014.02.11 06:23:00 - [70] - Quote Promiscuous Female wrote: weaselior's point still stands, please stick to the topic at hand sir the posting community thanks you No Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.

Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2284	Posted - 2014.02.11 06:52:00 - [71] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: "This nerf doesn't hurt us in any way but it's still biased against us." Its quoted right at the top of this page James this isn't hard bro Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2284	Posted - 2014.02.11 07:04:00 - [72] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: You must realize that just because we ask for a change and lobby for it doesn't mean that such a change would benefit us exclusively (or even really benefit us at all for that matter). And if it doesn't, does making the change still count as favoritism? Normally it wouldn't, but when you set out to enact the change in retribution because an enemy uses it (as was publicly stated) then it becomes favoritism if that request is granted. Like if the CFC's grand campaign had been "man drones are **** this all needs to get fixed" and the Assign nerf came as part of a larger package than good on you for making the game a better place, but when the campaign starts off as "N3 likes this, we think its dumb, but CCP doesn't, so we're going to rub everybodies face in it until they change their mind" you're not making the game a better place and CCP granting that desire can't be seen in any light but favoritism, especially when its wrapped in bullshit like 'we're fixing afk game play and trying to reduce server load' when what they're doing doesn't address either of those things in any meaningful way. I would be posting literally the exact same if the subject were anything different under the same circumstances. If the CFC had woke up and said "N3 likes mulitcolored lasers, we think thats dumb but CCP doesn't agree so until they do we're shoving multi colored lasers down their throats until they change their mind" and then 3-4 months later CCP says "we don't like multi colored lasers now we're making it unified colors" I'd be just as pissed because its the same thing. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2284	Posted - 2014.02.11 08:37:00 - [73] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: Let me put it to you another way: What incentive is there for CCP and the entire CSM to come to our position if it is indeed only as a result of our lobbying and not a change that's actually necessary? I don't know James, but its odd that in September this wasn't seen as a problem by CCP, even after the alliance tourney, and now suddenly after a fairly fierce barrage of forum posting and constant protests from one group suddenly there is a problem with it. By odd I of course mean greasy as hell. Fix Sov wrote: One side said "we'll use drones and drone assist", the other side "oh yeah? well, so can we.". And they did. And here we are. Thats not what happened but nice revisionist try there. If only it wasn't in print on that damned web site Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2285	Posted - 2014.02.11 08:50:00 - [74] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: Also, was drone assist used in the AT? I didn't pay any attention to it. Almost exclusively by every team in it, to the point that it was almost entirely a Dominix Only Tournament James Amril-Kesh wrote: You know what else I find interesting is that these cries of favoritism are over a change that was announced after the war was effectively over. If they're indeed catering to our side, they sure picked a bad time to go ahead with it. It doesn't have to be anything to do with the war, its catering to your sides wishes, regardless of the time it was done, I can't put it anymore plainly than that. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2285	Posted - 2014.02.11 10:15:00 - [75] - Quote Fix Sov wrote: Phox Jorkarzul wrote: If it was solely Drone Assist that lead to the overuse of drones then it would have been taken out 7 years ago as Mario said. Drones weren't useful enough back then to become the sole offensive weapon used by a majority of a fleet. Bullshit people have been assigning drones forever. What caused the overuse of drones was the mega buff to the Domi and the Ishtar, because the drones themselves, Drone Link Augmentors, and Omindirection Tracking links have been the same for just about forever. EDIT: Im trying to think if they (the mods) got a minor buff when they added DDA's but I know that the link augmentors are the same and I'm pretty sure the Omni's haven't ever changed too. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2285	Posted - 2014.02.11 10:22:00 - [76] - Quote Fix Sov wrote: Which increased the usefulness of the drones. :science: So that would mean that they over buffed those two ships (sentries on Geddons kinda suck balls) so why not just curb the problem ships a bit? I know i know, any kind of sense like that wouldn't fit in with your grand narrative and all that Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2285	Posted - 2014.02.11 10:42:00 - [77] - Quote Fix Sov wrote: Grath Telkin wrote: So that would mean that they over buffed those two ships (sentries on Geddons kinda suck balls) so why not just curb the problem ships a bit? You're missing a ship which has suddenly become very popular as well.. Actually I would bet that Archon usage was lower here than in fountain since the CFC didn't deploy the Boot fleet. NCdot and PL have always used them, we just never teamed up and went all Voltron with them. Nothing 'suddenly' got more popular, unless you maybe mean the Chimera which is about to become the shield version of the Archon (with twice the hp). Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2285	Posted - 2014.02.11 10:52:00 - [78] - Quote Phox Jorkarzul wrote: On the side of metrics I want to see the Metric of the amount of "Fun" and "Enjoyment" that is being had in fleets that CCP seemed to have a good sense of. Obviously judging by the size of the fights in the war and the overall level of destruction people are absolutely bored out of their mind, sheesh guy get with the narrative Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2289	Posted - 2014.02.11 22:18:00 - [79] - Quote Pinky Hops wrote: Mario Putzo wrote: Anchoring isn't that tough to tweak really. Simply just disallow you from using navigable command on a fleet member. This is getting off-topic but that's not really a good solution. It would invalidate many perfectly valid use cases...For instance, what if you just want to approach a fleet member? Not to "anchor" off of them, but just to get closer? You'd essentially force everybody into the double-click game which is really bad. Or just approaching celestials instead. This is a co out, because when you anchor on in a fleet the driver is already forced to do the double clicking, and your argument is that its ok for one person to have to do that but its not ok for everybody to have to do that. Drive your own ship. Know your position, if one person already does it theres literally zero reason the rest of the fleet shouldn't be able to Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2289	Posted - 2014.02.11 22:33:00 - [80] - Quote Cecil Arongo wrote: All this while you're still whining about drone assist? Hey remember when you and 3 other alliances decided to attack EMP and like, got beat down, then lost all your own money moons in your own space to GSOL because you couldn't be counted on to take care of it all yourself? Then had to call in Vee and BL to help bail you out before you actually cost the CFC serious money? You got beat up by Baki and Aerallol. Man weren't those good times? Also to be slightly on topic that post had nothing to do with drone assign it had to do with another 'afk mechanic" and peoples justification for keeping it. Its almost like the CFC as a whole has concerns about the implications of its members having to fly their own ships. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.

Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2290	Posted - 2014.02.11 22:47:00 - [81] - Quote Fix Sov wrote: We can start manually piloting our ships when you have to start manually track and fire the titan guns/DD. If you miss, sucks to be you. So what you're saying is that you're ok with AFK mechanics as long as they benefit you Cecil Arongo wrote: Yeah, because playing politics and yelling at a line member is classy. WTG Grath.. I'm sorry, can you show me the rule that says i have to be nice to a guy who comes up to me acting like an idiot? If you could point that out I'll gladly stay classy, other wise I'm pretty sure theres a bag of something you can choke on around here somewhere.. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2290	Posted - 2014.02.11 22:53:00 - [82] - Quote Fix Sov wrote: Grath Telkin wrote: Fix Sov wrote: We can start manually piloting our ships when you have to start manually track and fire the titan guns/DD. If you miss, sucks to be you. So what you're saying is that you're ok with AFK mechanics as long as they benefit you Wait, you don't want to pilot your own ship? I got almost 80 kills in an inty (vs other inties in the fleet fights)in December, without losing a single one, you will find that i can pilot the hell out of my ship Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2290	Posted - 2014.02.11 22:58:00 - [83] - Quote Promiscuous Female wrote: talking about all this anchoring nonsense is way offtopic for this thread please pack it in folks we need to stay ON TARGET Not when the OP talks about AFK mechanics, sorry little bee but its on topic because anchoring is an afk mechanic as well. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2290	Posted - 2014.02.11 23:09:00 - [84] - Quote Fix Sov wrote: I've a great idea, just telling your ship to move forward once is also an afk mechanic. We need minigames to keep your ship moving forward. Mining needs a minigame, Ratting needs anything at all to make it not boring, at this point im considering a ******* drip feed. Just about the only mechanic I currently feel engages the player is the damn hacking and probing bits. Everything else is just a series of you staring at your screen waiting for a flashing something to cycle so you can make it cycle again. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2290	Posted - 2014.02.11 23:14:00 - [85] - Quote Promiscuous Female wrote: nope, not seeing it see plenty of talk about delegation of drones but only a passing reference to non-drone delegation and only in a comparative context feel free to start a new thread about the EVILS of ORBIT AT 10KM if you like though and give me a link so I can participate :sun: Nah I think i'll keep talking about it here, regardless of if thats ok with you Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2290	Posted - 2014.02.11 23:26:00 - [86] - Quote Mario Putzo wrote: Since were on an anti-afk kick. What would you do to address passive incomes of POS and PI? Moon mining has always been dumb, the entire 'ring mining thing' would have been awesome but like so many sweet ideas CCP dropped the ball and just kicked the can down the road. They've attempted to remedy that by giving us siphons but the way the siphon works it essentially punishes the moon holder for owning a moon and requires that he sit on it like a mother hen all day long. It was a terrible idea much like most of these deployables (notable exception being the cyno jammer things) PI is harder because we always thought that it was going to be something DUST mercs could work on but DUST is a pretty spectacular failure and CCPs' refusal to port it to PC just reinforces that, maybe if you allowed us to bombard it like they do with Mercs you could at least put some kind of risk into the PI process but as it stands right now being completely passive its dumb. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2291	Posted - 2014.02.11 23:39:00 - [87] - Quote Promiscuous Female wrote: also it's p adorable that you are having to resort to terrible k.com posting tactics in order to not look like a hypocrite Try and stay on topic please, posting about posting is frowned upon in this establishment Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2291	Posted - 2014.02.11 23:57:00 - [88] - Quote Promiscuous Female wrote: Mario Putzo wrote: Promiscuous Female wrote: introduce a mobile deployable for the former that lets people rob a fool let people wrestle over who owns the customs office and potentially lock people out for the latter oh wait both of those things made it into the game :sun: efb Replace one passive mechanic with another passive mechanic....you should apply to be a CCP Dev. they can't afford me Your name suggests something entirely different Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2291	Posted - 2014.02.12 02:22:00 - [89] - Quote Ragnen Delent wrote: . Obviously before drones were at a point where they could even be considered a comparable weapon to other systems, the mechanic never really needed looking at, because while it existed it didn't impact play very much. . What changed besides two ships and the addition of the Drone Damage Amps? Ragnen Delent wrote: we can see if drones are at least balanced, rather than shunting them into non-relevance. No joke if they are that much murder on the servers in large fights they honestly should just go, because i think we can all agree that the lower the TiDi and the easier the fights are on the server the more fun we'd all have. If the drones are a problem, take them out back and put a bullet in them Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2291	Posted - 2014.02.12 02:55:00 - [90] - Quote Lyris Nairn wrote: At this point I am not really sure what your position is, Grath, other than, "Anything but this proposed change." Are you anti-drone or pro-drone? Would you or would you not vote for Sarah Palin? These are questions. I am against changing this in this way because its only getting changed because the CFC threw a 90 day temper tantrum, I am for an overall change to drones that comes in a larger package which would include this very nerf that addresses all the other concerns about drones that are years older than this 90 day sob story from the CFC. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.

Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2291	Posted - 2014.02.12 03:00:00 - [91] - Quote Mario Putzo wrote: Grath Telkin wrote: Lyris Nairn wrote: At this point I am not really sure what your position is, Grath, other than, "Anything but this proposed change." Are you anti-drone or pro-drone? Would you or would you not vote for Sarah Palin? These are questions. I am against changing this in this way because its only getting changed because the CFC threw a 90 day temper tantrum, I am for an overall change to drones that comes in a larger package which would include this very nerf that addresses all the other concerns about drones that are years older than this 90 day sob story from the CFC. 8 months is longer than 90 days Grath. September 29th wasn't 8 months ago, which is the date that the CFC declared it would only use this mechanic until CCP changed their mind on it not being a problem. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2291	Posted - 2014.02.12 03:19:00 - [92] - Quote While i think the outright removal of Titans and Supers is a bad thing, I do think adding a drone bay to everything when you redo all the ships and then telling the playerbase that drones are killing the servers might not have been the greatest move Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2291	Posted - 2014.02.12 04:20:00 - [93] - Quote Ragnen Delent wrote: 3. Being against passive gameplay in a specific case does not mean that you therefore must be against it in all cases.. I mean it doesn't but just know that nobody will take you in anyway seriously if you try and argue that one form of passive game play is evil and that another is fine. Its ok that you're scared to drive your own ship I get that, but try not to be too much of a hypocrite about it. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2291	Posted - 2014.02.12 04:40:00 - [94] - Quote Pyth2 wrote: ITT: Graths slowly building mental breakdown following the post B-R shattering of his superiority complex starts to manifest as increasingly crazy and eccentric posting. Yes, pointing out the hypocrisy of saying that not shooting your own guns is bad but not driving your own ship is ok is 'crazy and eccentric.' Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2291	Posted - 2014.02.12 04:49:00 - [95] - Quote Ragnen Delent wrote: Except not driving your own ship is fundamentally part of the way the game controls. No sorry its not, this isn't even a good try at a lie. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2291	Posted - 2014.02.12 04:52:00 - [96] - Quote Ragnen Delent wrote: Grath Telkin wrote: Ragnen Delent wrote: Except not driving your own ship is fundamentally part of the way the game controls. No sorry its not, this isn't even a good try at a lie. Wow do you seriously double click in space whenever you're in space? God damn you must have awful carpal tunnel Your FC in a fleet does a lot of double clicking to steer the fleet and keep it in range, you would know that if you ever played before fleet anchoring was a thing because we all used to do it, then Armor Hacs and Fleet Anchoring became a thing and everybody stopped. So now you're driven around by your FC instead, in other words, passive game play. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2291	Posted - 2014.02.12 07:36:00 - [97] - Quote Mike Azariah wrote: Grath Telkin wrote: So now you're driven around by your FC instead, in other words, passive game play. Would you then be in favour of eliminating Fleet Warp? m I actually am fully in favor of it, I think it allows sleeping fleet members too much leeway, if they're not paying attention to the order why should somebody be able to save them? FC calls warp you warp, if you're the last one left because you weren't aligned then you're in danger of getting caught, if you're 'up to take a leak' then you get caught. The ability to add a fleet member (covops alt) to watch list and the size of our watch list means that you don't really have to be warped around, even to a cov ops alt, when he calls it, you should do that function yourself. HOWEVER, I honestly believe that fleet anchoring is a bigger problem than fleet warping, because fleet anchoring is used to keep people from getting out of firing position, and generally used so that most members don't have to do anything at all but press F1. Thats not really engaging game play and it definitely removes too much of the human error element. So if I had to pick one for them to focus on, it would be not approaching, orbiting, or keeping at range on a fleet member. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2291	Posted - 2014.02.12 07:55:00 - [98] - Quote That must be your way of saying "Please leave passive play mechanics that benefit me alone" Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2291	Posted - 2014.02.12 08:29:00 - [99] - Quote Fix Sov wrote: no, that's my way of saying "let's do this ***** properly and start actively piloting our ships" I wish i could take you rolling in the murder squad with me during one of the big fights. Laz's bonus ships fear the wrath. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2293	Posted - 2014.02.12 10:39:00 - [100] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: Removing anchoring and fleet warp doesn't lead to an improvement in gameplay for the line member, and it would drastically increase the number of commands sent to the server. Not to mention anchoring and fleet warp is not the problem that drone assist is because neither of them ignore ship and skill limitations.. It ignores player skill limitations though, because you're not needing to judge your own range or position at all relative to the enemy or your own fleet, and removing drone assign "drastically increases the number of commands sent to the server', so I'm not sure how either of those arguments hold water What are the other points though James? Server load? This doesn't adjust that at all, if anything it makes it worse due to drone aggro mechanics Drone popularity? You over buff 2 drone boats and are shocked when people use the hell out of them? Passive gameplay? Allowing somebody else to drive you around is fairly passive and I think I've covered that. What points have I not argued against yet that I'm missing? Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.

Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2293	Posted - 2014.02.12 10:52:00 - [101] - Quote Sgt Ocker wrote: but if it happened to be a Titan piot that had to urgently answer the phone or pick his crying daughter up after a fall, should he lose his titan? Yes of course he should. And we sometimes use the keep at range command but what you're often seeing is the "regroup" command executed by the FC because it even grabs the dumb people who are too stupid to properly keep their ship at range. But yes, anybody that gets up and walks away during a fight deserves whatever happens during that fight while they're not around. And as far as what PL knows I say, who cares what they know, we've never put any restrictions on what people say or when they say it, that sounds dumb. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2293	Posted - 2014.02.12 11:43:00 - [102] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: The Dominix without assist wouldn't be overpowered in fleet fights, due to scan resolution, targeting range, and the increased vulnerability to ewar that comes with not having a single ship you can put tons of RSBs and ECCM projectors on. Ok lets go over the myths before I do the end bit here, this is kind of important so please read it and don't outright dismiss it: First, Remote Sensor Boosters and Sensor Boosters do not cancel out Damps on a 1:1 basis. In fact if you have 3 lock range scripted Sensor Boosters on and you get hit with 3 lock range scripted Damps you still lose well over 50% of your lock range. And thats it brother, its stacking penalized out, the only thing you'll ever do no matter what after that 3rd RSB or Sebo is lose lock range. Regarding ECM, you can have a Sensor Strength of 1 million, and a single EC-300 can and will not only jam you, but permajam you. Its one of the single largest complaints about ECM is that the counter really doesn't counter it. So when you have a fleet of 100+ celestis as the CFC is known to do, it doesn't matter if its 1 trigger, or 100 triggers, they will all be equally damped and or jammed. Now, on to the Dominix not being broken because it'll be restricted by Lock Range and Scan res. This is 5 minutes of me throwing stuff at EFT, not refined, not looked over at people better at EFT than me and most importantly NOT under fleet bonuses (which will increase its lock range). The fit you're about to look at (assuming you click the link) can even be further modified: http://i.imgur.com/XIRMIVk.png Now with a fairly simple set of instructions for each squad to follow and our 15 member watch list, I can make sure that each squad of Domis has 1 of 15 people to assign off of since you can now assign drones from the watch list and we have a platform that will fire 50 drones worth of alpha every 4 seconds at up to 25 different targets. Tell me again if you think that after my 5 minutes of EFT theory crafting that this nerf will make that much of a difference? Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2293	Posted - 2014.02.12 11:59:00 - [103] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: Congratulations, you made a Domi fit without a prop mod. Idk if you noticed but it can shoot out to a warpable range and you now have deployable MJD's, Prop mods aren't as needed as they once were James, we have Rokh fits that don't use Prop mods at all and people have Malestrom fits as well. You don't need a prop mod in the current game environment on every battleship. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2293	Posted - 2014.02.12 12:17:00 - [104] - Quote Fix Sov wrote: So what we can conclude with is that the drone assist nerf is happening, it'll have no effect on N3/PL but they'll still sperg about it, and grath should get CCP to implement xwing style flying in space because we should remove any and all "afk mechanics". Sounds great, let's do this. You forgot to add in that you sleep less than I do Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2294	Posted - 2014.02.13 02:38:00 - [105] - Quote I didn't read everybody else's reasoning to the whole 'but what about the carriers' bit but like, here's mine: Carriers have the hp to survive for a really long time against sub caps. Regardless of if they're doing damage to said sub caps at all its hard for just sub caps to kill a fleet of carriers. I mean tis a Fleet of Carriers. (this opens a side conversation about how to reward people for a broader and more diverse coverage of ship types to avoid full fleets of one ship type) Anyway the carriers, even when damped fully, will still have more than enough buffer to survive the lock times, and damps which will only be able to damp them down so far. The result is the ability to 'eventually' have everybody lock a target, or short of that the auto aggro mechanics of drones means that eventually these no tanked all damp celesti will begin to have problems, either from the massed lock that will kill them, the assign from 5 carriers, or the auto aggro will do enough damage to the overall Celesti structure that I feel pretty confident in the ability of the slow cat to weather this change. And if theres caps on the field we're in a different ballgame entirely so who cares what the sentry drones are doing. And thats the point, the change wont amount to much in the end, the people that field sentry carriers will still field sentry carriers. The people that field Domis can and should still field Domis because they'll still obliterate most comps that rely in sig tanking to surive as well as hit amazingly far with a fairly astounding punch. So what does the change actually accomplish then other than appeasement, and is appeasing a group of players the right reason to move a thing up in the developmental que past something like the Drone UI thats been a complaint of a much broader spectrum of players? Why put a bandaid on something and walk away when you can spend a bit longer actually fixing the overall package, because as a good deal of us know, CCP is a serious repeat offender for never finishing what they start. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2295	Posted - 2014.02.13 07:35:00 - [106] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: Grath Telkin wrote: (this opens a side conversation about how to reward people for a broader and more diverse coverage of ship types to avoid full fleets of one ship type) Generally you do that by making it so one ship can't do everything. HTH WHAT, I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER THE ROAR OF THE CELESTIS FLEET, SPEAK UP Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2297	Posted - 2014.02.17 03:40:00 - [107] - Quote Mournful Conciousness wrote: The precursor to removing this ability would be to introduce a more thoughtful means of controlling ship motion, and I (and I suspect the devs) have no idea where to start on that - eve is not FPS nor complete RTS, it's somewhere in between.. You keep seeing people say this, like they anchor on the FC and his ship magically keeps at the right range to the hostiles and the logistics magically keep at range of their fleet members, but somebody is driving the anchor around, its not just keeping itself in the right position. The FC moves to keep transv at the right place, the Logi anchor moves to keep the other logi in proper range. So a 'more complex flight system' isn't needed because somebody is already using the existing flight system to do all these things for you Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.

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